#16 Strategies for Real Estate Success in Veterinary Services

In this episode, we explore the critical elements of finding an ideal location for a veterinary practice. Joe Flick from Carr Commercial Realty lends his expertise to dissect the nuances of veterinary real estate, emphasizing the benefits of engaging a specialist. Joe provides valuable insights into the role of an advocate in high-stakes real estate transactions, empowering veterinarians with the essential knowledge to make well-informed decisions that shape the future of their practices.

We delve into the complexities of real estate tracking and how it can inadvertently lead to an overwhelming number of unsolicited calls—an inconvenience that can be mitigated with a professional like Joe guiding the process. The episode also addresses strategic considerations veterinarians must evaluate, including whether to lease or purchase properties, and the specific challenges posed by the Florida real estate market. We discuss the importance of assembling a competent professional team to navigate the intricacies of real estate planning and negotiation, ensuring peace of mind through significant financial and emotional investments.

As the discussion concludes, Joe shares his expertise on lease renewals—a critical aspect for any practice. He offers strategies to enhance negotiation leverage and provides invaluable advice on managing build-outs and negotiating lease terms, equipping listeners with essential tools for success. The key takeaways underscore the necessity of early preparation and expert guidance. Join us to gain further expert perspectives on managing veterinary practices and to outline the industry’s blueprint for success.

Guest Info
JOE FLICK​​​​
  Agent - FL Orlando
407.223.4128
joe.flick@carr.us
LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/joe-flick-3b50b7b4
CARR - Joe Flick

Host Information

Bill Buter – Contact Information

Direct – 952-208-7220

https://butlervetinsurance.com/

bill@butlervetinsurance.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/billbutler-cic/

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Transcript

Bill Butler: 0:01

Welcome to the Veterinary Blueprint Podcast brought to you by Butler Vet Insurance. Hosted by Bill Butler, the Veterinary Blueprint Podcast is for veterinarians and practice managers who are looking to learn about working on their practice instead of in their practice. Each episode we will bring you successful, proven blueprints from others, both inside and outside the veterinary industry. Welcome to today's episode.

Bill Butler: 0:25

Welcome to another episode of the Veterinary Blueprints Podcast. I am your host, Bill Butler, and, as always, we're bringing the business and entrepreneur mindset to the veterinary industry. And I'm your host, Bill Butler. As I mentioned, Our guest this week I had the pleasure of meeting. I was just down at VMX in Florida and met so many great people. I just happened to be standing at a booth and this gentleman walked up and we got connected by the person I was speaking with and we hit it off. We had bumped into him a couple times during the show out on the exhibit floor and he introduced me to some people show out on the exhibit floor and he introduced me to some people. It was a really good time and so I'm grateful to be able to bring Joe Flick from Carr Commercial Realty and he has informed me that Carr Commercial Realty is the largest tenant buyer brokerage firm in the United States. He represents Central Florida and I'm happy to bring Joe Flick onto the podcast today.

Joe Flick: 1:24

Hey, bill, pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.

Bill Butler: 1:27

So you and I just happen to bump into each other, as often happens at these kind of shows, especially that show. I mean, that's an amazing show. I've never been to VMX. How many times have you been to VMX?

Joe Flick: 1:40

That would be my fourth year running in some capacity. Yeah, absolutely Fourth year running. You're absolutely right.

Bill Butler: 1:46

So you've been attending as a commercial real estate professional with Carr and so why don't you give us a little background on yourself and who Carr is and how they fit into and specific the healthcare space? I think that's probably the quantifier for Carr right. They're the largest tenant buyer brokerage for healthcare. So why don't you give a little background on yourself and who you are and what CAR is to the veterinary world?

Joe Flick: 2:12

Sure, yeah, that's kind of a mouthful, isn't it?

Bill Butler: 2:17

It is.

Joe Flick: 2:17

The largest tenant buyer, but it qualifies us. So essentially what it means is that we work specifically for doctors in my case mostly veterinarians and we work on their behalf. So we work one side of the equation. I don't work for landlords, I don't work for sellers, I only work for people that are actively looking for real estate in some capacity and, like I said, we further kind of, I guess, focus in, hone in on the healthcare field and then specifically with veterinarians. So it really it specializes us. It doesn't pigeonhole us per se, but we can really pardon the pun. We can really vet properties and get the correct ones in front of our potential tenants and buyers so that they don't waste times on properties that just don't make sense for them.

Bill Butler: 3:30

And I got to tell you, just trying to find commercial office space even though there's a ton out there right now because of the current market here in 24, it is a royal pain in the butt. Not all the locations are listed and all the rates are negotiable. And just out trying to look on LoopNet or whatever your local area has LoopNet's national, but CBRE and all these, they don't list everything and they don't show where everything is. And you know, I just want to know what the dang rent is per square foot.

Bill Butler: 3:55

And do you have the 1,500 to 1,700 square feet I need for my insurance operation and I have to imagine, when you're working with your clients, that you run into the same thing and so you know. If you're a veterinarian looking to open a practice or expand to a new location or buy something, why should they hire a commercial real estate agent, specifically one who, as you said, knows the industry?

Joe Flick: 4:22

That's a great question, bill, and I mean you hit the nail on the head with. When it comes to that, it doesn't matter if you're a veterinarian or a small business owner, whether you have one location or seven locations. At the end of the day, you're a small business owner. You know what you're doing. You're either taking care of your business, taking care of patients that's what you've trained to do, that's what you love to do. Doing something like this trying to find a space to lease, trying to renew your current lease, which we'll get down the road and we'll talk about a little bit down the road that's all after hours things.

Joe Flick: 4:58

You don't have time for that, and on top of it, you're not an expert in that area, so you don't know what the market can bear. Like you said, all of a lot of those um. Those properties aren't going to have the base rent listed.

Bill Butler: 5:13

What type of um, what type of term negotiable and the rate and the square foot negotiables, like what the heck does that mean?

Joe Flick: 5:23

And if we?

Bill Butler: 5:23

build it out, and if we build it out, we're going to throw in an extra five bucks a square foot, or you can build it out, or you know. There's just so many different things specializing with veterinarians and then figuring out that you like working with them. And then how do you help your clients, whether they're looking to buy or lease a space.

Joe Flick: 5:53

Great question. So I mean I'll give you the short story on that. My path was a little odd, but not quite as crazy as some of the ones I've heard. Coming to Carr. I was in the restaurant industry for a long time. I worked nights and it wasn't really conducive to family life. And one of our agents at the time he lived in the neighborhood. We had kids the same age that were playing together and we kind of just all gravitated towards each other and he told me what he did and he told me they were opening a commercial. So Carr is healthcare tenants and buyers and at the time we had a strictly commercial version of what we do as well Same process, same methods. But anybody let's say we had a doctor that had a cousin that owned a nail salon and they had a lease renewal or they were looking for a second location. Yes, we could do that, but that's not what we're best at, that's not what we're known for.

Joe Flick: 6:51

And so we opened a division that would focus on helping those tenants and buyers, those clients out, and that's what I was brought on to do. With my restaurant background, I worked with a lot of, you know, of course restaurants, karate, dojos, nail salons, small business owners your general strip mall. Yeah, yeah, general strip mall.

Bill Butler: 7:12

Tenants right.

Joe Flick: 7:14

Yep tenants, people that we're buying to, and you know, while it was good, I think, covid, that was 2019. And in the beginning of 2020, of course, covid hit and we really started to refocus and think about. You know what it is that we were good at and that's helping people. That help people healthcare professionals doctors.

Joe Flick: 7:36

And so we kind of reorchestrated a little bit and that brought about my position being liquidated in the commercial industry and I went straight to another buddy of mine, a partner at the time. He was working with optometrists, ophthalmologists, chiropractors and veterinarians and I jumped into his pipeline. It was a match really that worked out well for us. He needed someone. He was overextended, didn't have time for his family.

Joe Flick: 8:10

And I was already there. He didn't have to hire me and train me. I already knew how car worked and what happened, so I kind of just stepped into his pipeline and hit the ground running there. And veterinarians were, and probably are still, about 60% of my portfolio and who I really focus the most bandwidth on working with, simply because they're A they're fun to work with. Yeah, they're great. They're great people to work with.

Bill Butler: 8:37

Yeah.

Joe Flick: 8:38

Yeah.

Bill Butler: 8:39

And that's why you know we've enjoyed doing it as well. So you know kind of. Back to that first question why hire a commercial real estate agent? I'm not a real estate agent. I'm not a realtor Trying to figure out lease negotiations, what's available. All the building managers don't list rates. What's funny is I've reached out in my own search for my own office space. You reach out and go oh yeah, we don't list everything online. You're like well, how the heck are you going to? You know who who knows what's available.

Joe Flick: 9:09

Yeah, they don't want you, they don't want people to kind of fish for pricing. So you know they don't want you to be able to compare one one building to another, and they also they use it, I guess, as bait for people that aren't experienced in the real estate industry to call out If you're going in on your behalf. The landlord or the listing agent is doing a cartwheel in the background because they know that you're not trained in this industry. You don't have any market knowledge.

Joe Flick: 9:36

And more than likely. You're going to pay more than market rent. Yeah, whatever, and you're not going to get the concessions that maybe you should be getting in that market.

Bill Butler: 9:46

Here's what's crazy. Here's what's crazy, joe, is that I mean for everyone out there when you start clicking on real estate listings for whether it's buy or lease, they have so much tracking stuff out there that I would like I just go to their website and they start calling my office and.

Bill Butler: 10:06

I'm like how the heck did they get all my contact info off of me Just looking at a listing on loop net and you know Joe's laughing at this. But like seriously I was, I would get three to four calls a week just just shopping online and it's like the ad shopping for insurance. Exactly, and so, like I said, shopping for insurance, we're hot on your tail.

Bill Butler: 10:26

And so I think you know one thing that you could do as the commercial real estate professionals act as that buffer where I'm not getting hit up by every property manager that I looked at, right.

Joe Flick: 10:37

Yeah, no, yeah, buffer is a great way, that's actually a good way of putting it, because they were helping you. It's always going to be an emotional process because it's a very you know, it's a financially burdensome process to you. In some capacity You're going, you're putting a huge, taking out a large loan.

Bill Butler: 10:55

Yeah, you're putting a huge investment, personally and and monetarily, into this thing and you want to like. That's your baby, that's where you're going to spend more time than you.

Joe Flick: 11:28

Sure, no, you're absolutely right. So being able to be in that position where we can filter the information that we're getting from the landlord or the seller, because we know how sound bites of what you need at the end of a long day or during you know when you get, when you step out of an exam room for a couple of minutes after seeing a patient, to really see the bullet points of, hey, this is where we're at, this is where I think we need to be, this is how we push back and you know this, that or another way.

Joe Flick: 11:52

And I'm really simplifying it. But that's essentially what we're there for to be your advocate. And from that perspective too because we only represent tenants and buyers, we don't represent landlords and sellers we can enter into a fiduciary agreement with our clients. We're actively and legally working actually on your best behalf, because there's no conflict of interest. We don't list properties on the other side. We don't have a tenant looking for a couple of spaces that we're steering Steering's a bad word in our industry.

Bill Butler: 12:29

That actually happened to me because I was going to look at one property and they said, well, we have this other property, we'll meet you there, we can look at that. And I'm like I don't want to look at that building. It's attached to a vacant than the one that I'm trying to lease out to you. And I was just like I mean, I knew it was happening, but you never think about veterinarians. They just don't have time to screw around with that. So you know, if you're a veterinarian and you're thinking, I want, I need either need a new space, I need to expand or I'm going to start a practice, you know from your perspective of what you do and you're based in central Florida, just to put that out there. So you didn't have to go far to hit VMX, but you're in central Florida, it was right in your backyard, right in my backyard.

Bill Butler: 13:26

We escaped the cold weather to come down there. Should they lease, you know, from your perspective, should they lease or buy?

Joe Flick: 13:34

That's a good question and I really the answer is it depends. And the process is that initial phone call conversation that we have is really about a getting to know each other, establishing a rapport, establishing trust, but also talking about what your visions and goals are. You know what stage of your practice life are you in? What's the end game here? Have you talked to your financial advisor? Do you have a CPA that you use?

Bill Butler: 14:03

Yeah. So getting your professional team together, so a real estate agent, lender, cpa, attorney, insurance, those are kind of the five biggies that you really. If you're thinking about either leasing, buying, because if you lease you still might need a build-out loan. So you got to get the lender involved and at some point you're going to have to put a downstroke down. That's where the financial advisor comes into play to say can you afford to suck in your cheeks? A little bit to jump in right.

Joe Flick: 14:32

Well said and it's yes. And if you can purchase, great, but I guess what? Or if you want to purchase, I should say then great, but we just need to know what kind of sandbox we're playing in and what can the market bear?

Joe Flick: 14:47

So you might say, hey Joe, I've got $4 million just sitting in my bank account, let's go to town. I'm like, well, the areas that you're looking in there's next to nothing and most of the transactions are happening off market because people are going over each other to try to buy this property when it becomes available and there are several markets like that down here too.

Joe Flick: 15:06

So it's just kind of a it's setting the expectation level Like, yeah, well, you want to be there. Well, so do seven other people that I know, and probably 10 times that out there in the open market as well. So letting them know what it is, what kind of financial buying power they have if they're looking to purchase, or also looking breaking down and we have the ability to do that with some spreadsheets that we have breaking down what it's going to look like. So, okay, hey, buying in this area, it's about $300 to $400 a square foot. Let's say they want what is a 2,000 square foot building. So we need to make sure that we're factoring in everything that we need, including insurance, to see what that bottom number monthly basis is.

Bill Butler: 15:48

And Florida's a whole different situation when it comes to insurance. We were chatting at VMX about, you know, insurance, and he said, oh well, I don't have to worry too much about the coastal stuff. I don't deal with Fort Myers, or, you know, I've got some some counterparts that I send stuff to, uh, central Florida, it's not as bad. Um, you know, we have our own issues up here in the Midwest right now with insurance, and so you know, I think, like you were saying, having a really good game plan and understanding about, well, this is what I want to try and do.

Bill Butler: 16:19

How do all the pieces of the puzzle fit into play? I was actually on the phone with a veterinarian this morning from Miami and their loans held up because the insurance they thought they had they were not going to get now, and so you know it's trying to put all those pieces of the puzzle in place. You might have the perfect spot, but financing insurance, you know it, it the next door neighbor, the roof age isn't the right, or or you know the the, the rehab costs might be too much. Um, now, you don't deal with vacant land buildups, do you?

Joe Flick: 16:58

Yeah, we can have, we can help with that Absolutely. So that's, that's another part of the conversation that we have at that. Initial reach out is, you know, if there's nothing there, let's go make that, let's find vacant land if it's available to. Let's talk SBA loans versus conventional. See what that looks like and then you know really finding out if we're talking purchase or bringing in the partners that we need. There are developers out there all day that love veterinarians, because I think we talked about this too. Their default rate is next to zero.

Joe Flick: 17:26

They're some of the lowest, if not the lowest, in the entire commercial real estate sector in terms of how little they are, how sure of a thing they are. So lenders love them and you know there are plenty of financial packages out there that lenders can put together, you know, of course, depending on credit cashflow everything to, to make that a possibility for them, and that's just extending the conversation as well, and we're there to handhold them throughout that whole process.

Joe Flick: 17:54

You know there are a lot of perceived obstacles that come up during the real estate transaction process and we're there to reassure them that you know this isn't the first time we've done it. We're not reinventing the wheel on it. We're going to show them, you know, the best avenue to get the deal done and to make sure, at the end of the day, that they're not getting taken advantage of and that they have peace of mind at the end of the night, knowing that they saw and assessed all the options that were out there in the market and that they made the best decision for themselves, their family and their practice.

Bill Butler: 18:25

So you know where do you generally fit in the food chain, so to speak. So I'm insurance, I'm always last. Everybody calls me right before you know they have to get the documents into underwriting at the, at the lender. Do you generally get the call first, or does the bank get the call first, or do they call their? You know who. You know where do you fit in that that food chain or pipeline, so to speak.

Joe Flick: 18:49

Oh, I'm usually near the front simply because they're having an initial conversation with you, know their family, and then they're having it with either a lender or they're getting on, like you said, costar or LoopNet or one of those platforms and just looking to see what's out there and after a while usually they come to the same realization that you did, bill, that you know I'm overwhelmed, I'm in over my head here.

Bill Butler: 19:14

I don't want to do this anymore, but I need some space. So what the heck am I going to do now?

Joe Flick: 19:18

Exactly. Well, what the heck am I going to do now? So they call a real estate professional that knows what they're doing, hopefully, and that works specifically with vets, Similar to your world, you know? Could you work with, you know, just any agent out there? Sure, but if you have the ability to work with someone that knows and understands the process specific to you, I mean that's a game changer, Well, in your industry right, because building out an optometry facility versus building out a veterinary practice are two totally different situations.

Joe Flick: 19:52

Correct Same or different suppliers, different vendors, different people that you need to surround yourself with to make sure that you're making an informed decision? Yeah, you're absolutely right there.

Bill Butler: 20:03

Well, and I'm sure when you're out there looking for your clients, you see you know 4,000 square feet differently for a veterinarian than you do for the other parts of your practice, where it's 4,000 square feet for you know optometrist or a podiatrist, or you know somebody doing you know a chiropractic clinic or something like that, where you look at that kind of blank canvas, where it's at if it's a lease space or a purchase, and you go, yeah, this is really it's not going to work for a veterinarian, but it would work great for this other industry. Or, hey, optometrist guy, this is really good for a veterinary practice. Let's, let's get one of her. You know one of them in there.

Joe Flick: 20:38

So and sometimes you're right there, Bill. We reverse engineer it. I mean, we're like, hey, this is a great spot. There's nobody within a mile, mile and a half. The demographics are great, the growth, the average household income is up there. What do I need to do to find a veterinarian that's looking?

Bill Butler: 20:55

to show them this location.

Joe Flick: 20:57

So you know I have no vested interest other than the fact that there, you know there's a need. I've established a hole in the industry or in the local market there where somebody could go and I'll reach out to you know a local rep, somebody that works with veterinarians all day and just say, hey, do you have anyone looking to expand into a different location or any startups coming down the line? I've got a perfect place for them. So, yeah, so I mean that's, there are several different ways to to get to the end game there. Most of the time it's with a client in hand at the very beginning, but a lot of times it's me finding the space before I actually find the client. And then going back to your original point there about looking at spaces and seeing a blank canvas, one of the first things that you need to know, especially in the veterinary world in the local market, is what the zoning ordinances are.

Joe Flick: 21:50

And they vary from county to county, municipality to municipality, and it's key. You don't want somebody that's coming in and looking at it, that's licensed in Florida but looking at it from California, looking at a Google map, finding a spot okay, great.

Bill Butler: 22:06

And then going down that path, jumping through all those hoops, only to find out it's zoned industrial, not commercial, and you're good luck getting it rezoned or, you know, you're jumping through a million.

Joe Flick: 22:18

Yeah.

Bill Butler: 22:19

I've worked with a couple of businesses both inside veterinary and outside, who, just you know, I was like, are they find the perfect spot and then they go. Well, that was good for what was there, but you need X number of parking spaces versus square footage because you're changing the zoning and there isn't enough. And so, or there's one business was buying a building and the bus stop was in front of their space and they needed pickup and drop off and it just, you know, it was like 15 trips in front of the city council to try and get the zoning change because there was a bus stop there. And you think how this so difficult? But the municipalities have their rules and if you're not conforming to that, you might find the perfect spot, but again, it just won't work out.

Joe Flick: 23:00

Yeah, and unfortunately we see that time and time again. We'll talk to doctors who bought land or bought a building and then they have to turn around and sell it or find a different use for it simply because they didn't go through the due diligence process, steps necessary to really um again that the property correctly before um signing on the dotted line. And you know um, it's a, it's a big financial outlay from the very beginning to do something like that. Oh, a huge time process too.

Joe Flick: 23:31

I mean not just the money but also the time and scope and, like you said, I think their time is just as important as the money and a lot of times, usually those coincide, as we like to say right.

Bill Butler: 24:11

So what's the most, so you know, between lease and buy, what do you see from your experience and with your counterparts at Carr being the largest tenant, buyer, broker for the health space, what's the most common real estate transaction that you see?

Joe Flick: 24:22

The lease renewal really.

Bill Butler: 24:24

Really.

Joe Flick: 24:25

Which, yeah, lease renewals, and I'd say that's probably of the transactions we have within all the different verticals that we do. I'd say it's usually 40 to 50% of each agent's pipeline and that might be more with us than it is with other agencies out there because we go after them. First of all, you know it's not a transaction that you really think of when you think of commercial real estate.

Bill Butler: 24:50

So I got my lease renewal offer from my landlord, yeah, and it was frankly disappointing. Just, I won't go into details cause we're in the middle of my lease negotiation or it's coming up, but let's just say um, um, I was a little astonished, less than pleased. It was hey, we're happy to renew you for five more years. It's like I've been here for 10 and I'm sure you want to renew me for five. So what are some pitfalls that you know? Like that example right there. I mean, you're just your knee jerk is well, I'm going to stay here for five more years. I mean, what, what is? What do you do and what does car do to help those tenant renewals?

Joe Flick: 26:34

So the best thing that you can do from a tenant, buyer, brokerage firm after hiring one of us and game planning is have an open mind about what you're going to do with your next step.

Joe Flick: 26:46

You can say, joe, I love my landlord, I love where I'm at, there's no way I'm moving and I say that's great, mr Doctor. But what we really need to do is we need to talk about posture here, because the biggest threat that you can make to any landlord or get them to the table because, at the end of the day, they are seasoned real estate experts. They know what they're doing. They've likely been doing this for a long time. They have an agent, maybe that's been doing this for a long time. They know how this dance works. You do not. So, going to the market showing you what's out there and actually touring locations and negotiating on locations so that you have a good perception not just of the base rent maybe your triple net expenses as well but also of what kind of concessions you can get from other places out there your TI, your tenant improvement allowance from a landlord to physically build out a new space for them or for you.

Joe Flick: 27:42

Free rent, the amount of time free rent, also on top of what you would get to build out.

Bill Butler: 27:49

You're making me think about the people I've been speaking with over the last two weeks here about what I'm potentially giving up, or like I just walk in and go oh, how much is a square foot? Oh, that sounds great, it looks awesome. I'm just sign me up and free, rent, tenant, build out, uh, finish. I'm sure like the finishes you're going to get, cause the current spot we have, I'm just going to say 10 years ago we didn't get what I would say is super nice stuff. So I don't even need to say, like, if I've got a year left on my lease, like that's probably a good time to start thinking am I going to stay here? And if I'm going to go?

Bill Butler: 28:27

And if I'm going to stay here, I should go find a car, a real estate professional somewhere in my locality. If you're in central Florida, call Joe Flick and say, hey, my lease is up in a year. What do you think we should do? I'm going to get you on board and figure out how to how to maximize it. I'm going to stay here, but how do I, how do I get the best out of, out of signing another five-year or seven-year? Because I mean, realistically, if you're a veterinary practice, you're going to sign a five or seven like you're not going to sign a two-year lease.

Joe Flick: 28:55

Yeah, you won't sign it, mostly because you're very vested in that space. You know your build-out is not cheap by any means. Dentists and vets typically have the most expensive build-outs per square foot out of any of the healthcare industries from what we see. So I mean even with startups there. You know the lenders are going to require a 10 year note, so they're going to want the they're going to want the lease to match.

Joe Flick: 29:23

Yeah, 10 year. So they're going to want that in some capacity, either a five with a five-year option or a 10 year. But going back to our original point there, and then we can kind of touch that if we have time. But, yeah, the lease renewal process, there the bit, the best thing we can do is go in there with enough time, usually nine, nine months to a year. If you're considering looking, or we don't have any posture for retail spaces for lease in that area, we'll make our own posture. We'll look at locations in you know ground up locations. Or we'll say Mr Landlord, hey, you know he likes where he's at, but he needs more space, his dream is to build. You can't say that with two months left on your lease they're like yeah, right Okay.

Joe Flick: 30:04

Yeah, okay, sure, float a brick. We're going to, we're going to go. You know you're not getting anything out of us. So what we need to do usually-.

Bill Butler: 30:12

The loan process by that point before you let alone find a builder and land and the whole deal.

Joe Flick: 30:19

Exactly exactly, and so you know. Ideally nine months to a year, a year to 18 months. If we're looking at ground up projects, we're looking to at least posture ground up projects in the market there. But the best thing we can do is really go out, show them the market, show what's there, and I'd say about 40% of the time we have tenants that will end up moving. They didn't know, they were gung-ho about moving until we actually got the process going, showed them other locations that got excited, that got them excited about it, introduced them to different partners to help them move. Maybe they have more frontage, more visibility, more parking. They're accessing a different part of the market that they didn't have before by simply moving across to the other side of the highway.

Joe Flick: 31:08

There are a lot of different things that come into play that really help us build and nurture that posture. So when we go to the landlord and we initially start that conversation, we have everything else already ironed out all these other people looking to take us to the prom and all these other sorry landlords looking to take us to the prom. We have all this firepower in our back pocket to then begin the negotiation process, saying, hey, mr Landlord, he's willing to stay, but we need to meet A, b, c and D, because the properties down the street are willing to do the same thing. We're not asking for the moon, but we're asking for fair market rent. Sure, yeah, fair market rent. A lot of times that there are escalations built into that year.

Joe Flick: 31:51

Oh yeah, Into that rent on a year-to-year basis. Your lease probably has that too. Yep Usually three, four, sometimes 5%, and after 10, 15 years of being in the same space, that usually outpaces the market.

Bill Butler: 32:05

You've escalated past market rate.

Joe Flick: 32:08

Yeah. So a simple reset saying, hey, let's get back down to market rate, let's get you or let's get them some free rent, let's get some TI to it. It doesn't have to be the exact same as the spaces around, but equitable to it. So the TI maybe to refresh the space, get some new flooring in, maybe that's worn out. You know all of that.

Bill Butler: 32:30

Are you describing my current situation?

Joe Flick: 32:32

Yeah, see, hey, hidden home there, bill. But all of that, really it moves the needle, because it's typically one of the highest expenses behind payroll for any practitioners, especially veterinarians, is their real estate costs.

Bill Butler: 32:46

Yeah.

Joe Flick: 32:46

So being able to reset that can cost you know it can save them 10,000s of dollars, if not hundreds of thousands over the course of a five or 10 year renewal.

Bill Butler: 32:55

Yeah. So moral of the story if you're going to buy a space, if you're going to lease a space or if you're going to renew a space, so it's pretty much covering everything you have from a veterinarian perspective. Unless you've bought your own building and you're you're, you're just set. But. But if you're thinking about opening a practice or moving to a new location or you're you're a tenant and you've got a lease renewal, what you're saying is find a uh commercial real estate professional specifically, joe would prefer a car uh professional, but but there's, but there's plenty of professionals out there but car knowing what they do, and so you're Central Florida, but you know CARS National as far as an organization. So if a veterinarian out there hears this podcast and they want to reach out to Joe Flick at CAR, what's the best way to do that? I know you know you and I are on LinkedIn together. We'll get that information out there, but what's a good way for for somebody to reach out to you, joe?

Joe Flick: 33:55

You can reach me at by email or um at, uh joeflick at carus, and that's C-A-R-Rus.

Bill Butler: 34:04

Two.

Joe Flick: 34:04

R's. Yep, correct, yeah, two R's there, um, and then I can put you, even if you're out of market. I can put you in touch with the local real estate agent that best serves you.

Joe Flick: 34:16

Sometimes there are several, and it's nice to know which ones have the most experience and wherewithal with veterinarians there too, and I'm more than happy to put you in touch with the local market expert that you have there and you know whether or not you use us or not. Just make sure you're asking the right questions, you know. Make sure that they are tenant buyer reps only typically, if that's possible, that they're only working for you and not for landlords, that they have experience in some capacity with veterinarians and the intricacies and nuances of working with those transactions. And then also make sure that they are able to really hone in and find spaces, be market experts. Make sure they live, work and breathe in your markets. Drive them every day, otherwise it's impossible to keep up with expansion. Also the hotspots you Also the hot spots. What's new, what's dated, what markets are dying and which ones are coming up soon?

Bill Butler: 35:17

Yeah Well, you dropped a ton of gold nuggets for our listeners. Joe, it was a pleasure to have you on and it was awesome meeting you down at VMX and look forward to connecting you soon. For those of you who are catching this on a clip, I'm wearing my Royal St Cloud pullover today, which is in Joe's backyard down in St Cloud, Florida, in the Kissimmee area and anyway, so it was great having you on Joe. If Central Florida, make sure to hit Joe up, Otherwise we'll have his contact information. If you're looking for a commercial real estate professional, you can find one that specifically works in animal health space through Joe, or just talk with one out there and make sure you're being represented by somebody who understands the industry that we all work in. So thanks so much for joining us on this episode of the Veterinary Blueprints Podcast. Thanks for joining us, Joe.

Joe Flick: 36:08

Bill, it was a pleasure Appreciate you, sir. Thanks for joining us. Joe Bill, it was a pleasure.

Bill Butler: 36:10

Appreciate you, sir, and, as always, make sure to like, click, review and share this with your friends. It does help with all the algorithms and we will catch you on the next episode of the Veterinary Blueprints Podcast. I'm your host, bill Butler. Thanks for joining us, you.